Comments on: Let’s Harmonize the Set!

By: mike

mike — Sat, 22 Nov 2008 15:56:14 +0000

Kenny – points well made, and taken.

Generally, though, I’m beginning to see that there is no majority interest to change the pipe band status quo.

C’est la vie, c’est la guerre.
M.

By: Captain

Captain — Sat, 22 Nov 2008 15:33:19 +0000

Michael…I like the suggestion that the pipe band MSR might be a museum piece and much the same may even be said about the pipe band medley. Perhaps both have evolved as far as they are going to, in which case it just might be time to put these relics on public display in a separate gallery and open up a new room at the ROM. If I read you correctly, this just might be the point you are making, given your recent developments and suggestions about the MSR, the medley as well as the contest format. One thing for sure, progressive thinking has to convince the status quo masses to push the evolutionary window. How long is a Darwinian cycle in pipe band music?

By: mike

mike — Sat, 22 Nov 2008 12:43:46 +0000

o Kenny, not entirely sure I agree with you on this; I just don’t view the pipe band MSR as a precious museum piece that needs kid glove treatment to retain. Like a favourite pipe chanter (or drum): better to play, cut, carve, tighten – do whatever it takes to get the relative best out of it – until it breaks …and then you get the new improved version – and evolution continues

o Stephen – humility is one of the best characteristics of any pipe band adjudicator!
M.

By: srmdrummer

srmdrummer — Fri, 21 Nov 2008 08:53:10 +0000

Hmmm… perhaps at this point I should stress that I am a humble drumming adjudicator in a state not running the 2010 OzChamps nor do I hold any sway with the RNZPBA across ‘The Ditch’!

That said, having the illustrious Ken Eller and Michael Grey on offer, would surely be too good for them to turn down!? NZ are bringing out Messrs Richard Parkes MBE and Alistair Aitken for 2009; we had a tribe (the accurate collective noun, I might add) of Kiwis this last go round and Malcolm Mackenzie and Joe Noble before that… so why not look to the North Americas beyond that?

If I say it and write it often enough, maybe it will happen…

- Stephen

By: Captain

Captain — Fri, 21 Nov 2008 04:20:56 +0000

Love it Mike…master (something)!…I am afraid to fill in the blank! Will let you know when my ticket arrives!

But more importantly, the roundish gaelic style is precious and reserved (preserved) for that highland expression using the solo pipe. The pipe band was indeed nurtured and matured in Govan, Bowhill, Shotts and Grangemouth, not to forget Edinburgh and a couple of Fife locations…Not a highland thing… it is an idiom to itself and I feel compelled to keep the two separate…for the sheer sake that if we attempt to merge or compromise, we might very well lose both… can you imagine those that play in bands today who have difficulty playing the current style of MSR, ever getting a hold of the gaelic idiom and doing it the same service?.. a concern if we musically cross pollinate!

Vive la differance!…

Ken

By: mike

mike — Thu, 20 Nov 2008 13:02:30 +0000

o Kenny – you’re a master (something)! Snagging invites to judge in the Antipodes off of MY site!

o Stephen – I, too, am an accredited judge guy

o Chris – great thoughts on mixing up the snare side of sound: it would be good to hear some corps provide more variety in their approach

o Kenny – as regards the phrasing, etc of MSRs carved in stone: I still think we’re all too precious here. MSR “stylings”, as pipe bands play them today, are still closely rooted in the same Govan-Bowhill-Shotts area triangle of sound circa 1935 or so. What about a pipe band playing a nice roundish Gaelic-feeling march a la Dr Angus MacDonald? Not “Scottish” enough? M.

By: srmdrummer

srmdrummer — Thu, 20 Nov 2008 01:32:21 +0000

Ken, thanks for the response. Of course this is about ‘personal taste’ and a lot of adjudication is subjective. I guess my thoughts focus on the *degree* to which personal taste should dictate a competition result in this aspect of the music. Hopefully all of us ‘with a clipboard’ are beyond the notion of penalising a band for playing a tune we personally detest, right? This is more subtle. I totally agree that MSR harmonies or drummers playing more constantly are really quite minor (well ‘minor’ to me) changes that do not impact on the fundamental structure or phrasing of the set. It is an interesting thing to contemplate and think we should always be open, discussing and challenging – even if nothing happens immediately.

It would be good to have you down to this part of the world for a visit, by the way. You could catch up with your mate Nat in his part of the world, for once. I managed to have an in-depth one-on-one conversation with Nat last week at the Andre Rieu stadium spectacular (there was plenty of sitting around time to be had before our finale!). Come to think of it, maybe you should suggest your availability to adjudicate at a contest or two in Australia/New Zealand? My master plan is taking shape now… I’m on a roll (as any good drummer should)!

By: Captain

Captain — Thu, 20 Nov 2008 00:30:16 +0000

Stephen – you have raised a critical adjudication question and the answer fortunately must lay with personal taste. What has traditionally been the norm might not fit here. Michael has raised the issue of harmonies within the traditional MSR, and for once in my life, I must get off the proverbial fence and say “go for it lads”… harmonic effects are a part of music and music evolves. The MSR has never been challenged as to its musical authenticity, so I cannot see that adding harmonies can possibly offend even the most traditional of us on the panels around the world. Having said that, please don’t mess around with the phrasing, pulsing, and tempos as we accept them … certain things are carved in stone for the contest arena (but not the concert stage)
Ken

PS: VOTE 2 – TPPB Oz/NZ Tour 2010!
PPS: VOTE 1 – the Captain to go as well!

By: srmdrummer

srmdrummer — Wed, 19 Nov 2008 23:20:31 +0000

Ken – I don’t think you’ve said: If you were adjudicating, and a band harmonised or otherwise ‘tinkered’ with the standard MSR, how would you critique it from a piping point of view? “Fired up” how much?
There is more to this issue than meets the eye, isn’t there? If something isn’t precluded by the rules, then we (well those who adjudicate) default to what has been ‘traditionally accepted through common use over time’. Change (and innovation – therefore ‘traditions’) start somewhere, even if those changes aren’t adopted universally at the time (as you point out Ken).
I’ve been trying to think of how I’d receive such an occurrence from a drumming adjudication point of view. If, for example, a band left the line with the entire corps playing continuously, I would think it interesting, different, and as long as the corps was dynamic, sympathetic, accurate and all that it should be musically, then I wouldn’t give it a thought beyond mentioning I found it ‘interesting’. One could actually debate which is that harder way to go: all drummers playing dynamically well all the time, or drummers managing the unison parts of the piano accurately with the lead – so it should be a question of ‘taking the easy road’ or anything.
Well, that’s just me from a drumming point of view… but what about piping adjudicators out there? What say you if faced with non-traditionally expressed or harmonised MSRs (or both)?
- Stephen
PS: VOTE 1 – TPPB Oz/NZ Tour 2010!

By: Captain

Captain — Wed, 19 Nov 2008 12:50:34 +0000

The problem with aging is that old becomes new again….and Chris Z’s suggestion above has been done extensively by the corps of John Kirkwood of the 60′s and Jim Kirkwood of the 70′s with the Clan MacFarlane Pipe Band…while his observations are perhaps correct about dynamics, drummers over the years have not been sheepish to follow. Can there be a reason for this? During those years in the 60′s I heard beer tent discussions that forethinkers like John Kirkwood just might be 20 years ahead of their time. Given that it is almost 2009, I might suggest that they were 40 years in advance. Michael might be the same… Let’s consider being transigent on this one…. harmonies for the naysayers…. I am fired up! Ken